94 Golf CL MK3 - Piece of junk

chuckfoo · Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:01 pm Post subject: 94 Golf CL MK3 - Piece of junk

Gentlemen, after 3 weeks at Tunedub and a new ignition coil ($300) then 2 days at Concept1 and a new throttle body ( $200), coolant sensor and disconnected o2 sensor ($375) this last week has been rough on the mk3.

It started a month ago, when cold the mk3 would hesitate, buck, chug, idle like a diesel, puff black smoke and try to stall out. It seemed like a fuel problem. I bought a fuel pump relay and a fuel filter took it to tune dub... George says it was the throttle body.. it wasn't. The car hasn't changed, after parking outside it idles very rough, sputters, blows black smoke and then will hesitate and try to stall until it gets warm. Once it's warm... drives like a champ.. no problems.

I'm pretty frustrated. $970 down the tube in the last month with absolutely no change. I don't want to take it back to Concept1 because it seems they're just checking which codes keep coming up, resetting them and hoping for the best. However this $600 car isn't worth the $$$ it's going to take for them to actually find what the problem really is. I can't afford to put more money into their guessing game.

Anybody have any insights? I'd really appreciate a little direction here. I'm going to put the fuel pump relay and fuel filter in this week. But both shops didn't even consider this so I'm not expecting any change.

Help?

MK2DUMPED · Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:38 pm Post subject:

check the rubber plate between the throttle body and the intake! once it separates it can cause the symptoms you describe.

chuckfoo · Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:14 pm Post subject:

Sounds good.. thanks I'll do that. Do you think this would be something Concept1 and Tunedub would have overlooked?

MK2DUMPED · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:50 am Post subject:

i hope not because it is VERY common on these engines

chuckfoo · Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:00 pm Post subject:

Replaced the Fuel Relay (#167) and the fuel filter. I wiggled the throttle body and there wasn't any change. My receipt from Concept1 said that there was a throttle body seal replaced. I was curious as to whether my Coolant temp sensor is the correct one.. and if it's supposed to be able to wiggle fairly easily.

Old Fuel Filter

Engine - Golf CL 1.8L 8v

New throttle body

New Throttle body and coolant sensor(blue)??

Coolant sensor(blue)?

MK2DUMPED · Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:39 pm Post subject:

this probly has NOTHING to do with the car bucking and such but i did notice an orange oil filter on there..........do yourself a HUGE favor and do an oil change and NEVER put a FRAM oil filter on any VW you own. Use a Mahle or Bosch or a factory VW oil filter. All are very competitive in price to the FRAM but work 100 times better. Sorry I'm not to much help. Have you checked the plugs or the wires??? a good way to know if the wires are to blame is to wait till the car is running well IE: when warm then take a spray bottle out the the engine compartment (while running) and spray the wires generously with the bottle. If the wires are bad the engine will hesitate or stumble while idling. if that isn't it pull the plugs and check em to see if there is any fouling.

reggie v · Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:28 pm Post subject:

O2 sensor is fried. Its right in the exhaust manifold, and it will probably never come out. I had one of these cars years ago, ended up welding an O2 sensor bung onto the exhaust pipe and installing new sensor.
_________________
Your signature sucks.

VintageVinni · Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:49 am Post subject:

Holy Hell clean those grounds on the front of that block! Man is that corroded.
_________________
Sparky

'85 Subigon
'03 "Old man Beige" Golf TDI
'60 Kombi (real)/23 Deluxe (Fake, but who cares!)
______________________________________

conceptken · Joined: 01 Mar 2012 Posts: 3 Pictures: 0 Location: Calgary

Odd....

I think a more accurate quote from a "concept 1 mechanic" might be, "This car needs more work" as no one here said this car "purrs down the street".

You should be clear, and specify that we installed a USED throttle body supplied by the customer, and had nothing to do with a coil diagnosis.

If you are going to drag our name through the mud, at least give the correct details. If you are unhappy with something we did, please let us know.

Ken
Concept-1
403 287 8549

VintageVinni · Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:27 pm Post subject:

What's with the brake fluid reservour next to the air filter housing (on the wrong side of the car)?
And as Ken said, it's a used throttle body not new. A new one will cost upwards of $1500.00.
_________________
Sparky

'85 Subigon
'03 "Old man Beige" Golf TDI
'60 Kombi (real)/23 Deluxe (Fake, but who cares!)
______________________________________

MK2DUMPED · Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:10 pm Post subject:

VintageVinni · Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:07 pm Post subject:

Ya it already has one. The stock one.....on the master. But what is up with the rabbit brake fluid reservour for next to the airfilter housing?
_________________
Sparky

'85 Subigon
'03 "Old man Beige" Golf TDI
'60 Kombi (real)/23 Deluxe (Fake, but who cares!)
______________________________________

chuckfoo · Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:29 pm Post subject:

chuckfoo · Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:32 pm Post subject:

Microbus · Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:49 pm Post subject:

conceptken · Joined: 01 Mar 2012 Posts: 3 Pictures: 0 Location: Calgary

chuckfoo · Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:34 am Post subject:

I agree, you're purely reiterating what I've already mentioned. " As for what we did for your $375, it was diagnosis, replacement of the throttle body, the throttle body flange, spark plugs, and a coolant temp sensor, including supply of those parts. I don't think that that qualifies as unreasonable." What is unreasonable is that it was to no avail. In the thick of things $375 isn't anything, but at your suggestion I also had to cough up $200 for a used throttle body. Not a problem.. if it was the solution that would have made the car drive-able. Now if you think $575 to end up at square one is reasonable.. I'd challenge that thought process. Oh right, but then Tunedub followed the same principle, "It's a most probable cause scenario." It's all of these "probable cause scenarios" which mean I pay $975 for a car that stalls and heaves down the road.

"Tricky situation, as the very best solution would be to install a new throttle body (which we can all agree is very expensive) and an oxygen sensor. I believe we suggested the later, but it was declined due to cost". Odd, that these words would come up. I was never under the impression a used throttle body from Vince was in question and Andrew said that these older cars rarely rely on the O2 sensor so disconnecting it would be a valid solution. If the 02 sensor was what was causing the problem this was DEFINITELY not relayed to me? I was told that the 02 sensor was merely tripping a code, and that once disconnected the "car was running great, ran like a GL" I'm not sure why you continue to want to contest the idea that I was informed the car was "purring" or "running great", why would I have been under the guise that the car was fixed unless I was informed it was running great? Doesn't make sense for me to cough up money if you guys were calling me to say you couldn't fix the car for under $600 and it still ran like crap?!

"As for dragging out name through the mud... Which I read to say; you had spent $970 here, and we don't have a clue what we are doing." Very peculiar how you read things and how I wrote things are completely different. I never said you don't have a clue as to what you're doing? This is the dramatic antics I was referring to. I simply stated you guys were trying to wipe codes in order to get to a solution, and that I couldn't afford for you guys to continue to clear codes with new parts when no result was obtained other than the cleared code? Certainly other members called into question whether the correct colour sensor was installed or a flange was put in, I never alluded to any idea of incompetence, solely to the idea that the clearing code conquest wasn't an economical option.

"It might have been hasty for me to say "the car needs more work", but at the same time we did not perform an inspection on the car, nor did anyone say that this vehicle "purrs down the street" as your Kijij add would have people believe." I fixed the kijiji Ad as to be verbatim. Perhaps you should ask Andrew what I was told when I was informed the car was done and repaired rather than assume you know what was relayed to me! As I mentioned above, only an idiot would be content with paying $575 to get a throttle body, flange, and sensor installed only to have it accomplish nothing. I certainly wasn't told, "The car runs the same as when it arrived, you owe us $375." Even my receipt says "O2 sensor disconnected, runs well".?! I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here. It would appear youre trying to say the car was running poorly, and that I'm making this whole indication of C1 mentioning the car running well as a complete fallacy?

"If you'd like us to look over the work we have done, I'm happy to do so, at no charge." I'm really not interested in the continuous battle I've had to play out with Tunedub for 3 weeks on top of the couple days the car spent at C1 any further. Thus throwing it up on kijiji to rid myself of the struggle. I'm a Radiology Resident at Foothills Hospital, being a mechanic isn't much of a strong suit for me as I stare at computer screen all day. I'm sure that what you guys did is just fine... I don't question the work you've done, and my interaction with Andrew was amazing. Tunedub has a young girl that answers the phone who knows nothing about cars, at Concept1 you actually talk to someone who knows exactly what is going on and has mechanical experience. But... if you think I'm stoked to have spent money to have a few codes cleared, only to repair the car with a new fuel filter and a #167 fuel relay, parts which were in an unopened box in the passenger footwell of that car for the last 4 weeks... makes me think that a little time on google and the vw forums is a lot more valuable than a VagCom and specialty VW shop.
[/quote]

MK2DUMPED · Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:06 am Post subject:

WOW this just exploded into some "i can pee farther than you" and panty throwing!!!!!!!!

C'mon you guys be men about this and discuss it face to face. I'm sure Ken is willing to make it right but at the same token I understand where this guy is coming from. Quit yer bitchin online and DO something about the car whether its selling it on kijiji.ca, or fixing it and driving it.

To Ken: Things said on the internet can't be monitored at all times and what is said on the internet shouldn't be taken for the gospel. Things are misinterpreted ALL THE TIME. That being said it would probably be better if you were to call the customer rather than vent online, on a forum. I know it's your business and run it however you want but thats just my $0.02.

/rant

VintageVinni · Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:25 am Post subject:

Firestarter · Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:37 am Post subject:

Not that it is relevant, But the cost on a new Throttle body is $869.00 for the upper portion, and the lower is $1053.80 for a manual trans car. So they are extremely expensive. I say just give C1 a call and they will sort you out. As for my advice on the rough running, I blame it on missing 2 cylinders in the engine bay haha.
_________________
www.autobahnperformance.ca
APR Dealer
PM me for any VW or Audi parts you may need
new and used.

conceptken · Joined: 01 Mar 2012 Posts: 3 Pictures: 0 Location: Calgary

You guys are right, it does appear to be a bit of a peeing contest.

I responded to this post, as my company name was mentioned, in what I saw as a negative light.

I sincerely want all of our customers to be happy with what they have had done here, or any products they have purchased.

Chuckfoo, you've got my number, If you want any help with this car, let me know and I'm happy to do so.

Ken
Concept-1

VintageVinni · Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:43 pm Post subject:

Getting back to what I said before. Clean up the grounds on the front of the engine. It might help and costs almost nothing but your time.
It's not easy to diagnose over the internet but from the photos those grounds don't look very good.
_________________
Sparky

'85 Subigon
'03 "Old man Beige" Golf TDI
'60 Kombi (real)/23 Deluxe (Fake, but who cares!)
______________________________________

chuckfoo · Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:20 pm Post subject:

chuckfoo · Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:21 pm Post subject:

sundog kid · Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:28 pm Post subject:

So Ken offered to look at the car and what they did, at no cost, and the op didn't take him up on that?

Good god, Id be camped outside the next day if we had a shop that would offer me that kind of customer service here lol.

(GP shops - the customer is always wrong Razz

)
_________________
Contrary to popular belief, I am neither a dog nor a kid.